Fort Worth Real Estate Online


North Carolina Denies the Right of Marriage Equality

Two days ago, on May 8th, the State of North Carolina voted on an amendment to their state constitution.  As those of you who are regular readers of my blog probably know, I am not pleased with the fact that North Carolina has now written into their State Constitution the refusal to recognize Marriage Equality.

Yesterday, a friend of mine from North Carolina sent me an email.  In it was a little graphic, which is pictured here.

I am thinking, or hoping that the sender of the graphic thought it was a cute way to present their opinion of the results of Tuesday's vote.  I don't think it is cute.  I think it is tragic.

How a state like the Great State of North Carolina can imbed into its Constitution what is simply and blatantly a "religious belief"... and make it law... and then require all of its citizens to follow its dictates... reeks of Theocracy.

What is a Theocracy ?  Well, one of the many parts of the definition explains that this form of "government" takes its religious beliefs... which are simply "beliefs..." and "codifies" them.  This means that it turns them into LAW... and then forces everyone in that Theocratic state to adhere and abide by that religious belief... which, as I said, is now considered a law.

Where else do they do that sort of thing ?  Well, Iran comes to mind.  So does Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia.  They call it Shari'a Law.  [Now, you who do not agree with me, please don't take this mention of Shari'a Law and go crazy with it.  I am using the concept of Shari'a Law here in a very, very narrow sense... and ONLY applying it to Marriage Equality.  Nothing else.]

Religion can be a wonderful thing.  But it should be a personal thing.  And it should be a personal choice.

America... what the hell are we doing ?

*                         *                         *

Comment balloon 61 commentsKaren Anne Stone • May 10 2012 07:57AM


Karen Anne -- and I believe I read there are four states across the US that have have similar measures on their ballots in November.

Posted by Michael Jacobs, Los Angeles Pasadena 818.516.4393 about 8 years ago

As much as I agree with your stance on gay marriage, I believe the comparison to Sharia Law is a strawman fallacy, and I wish sensible Liberals would stop taking the same approach when debating topics as the people they are opposed to. It just makes both sides look shrill and unreasonable.

Posted by Malcolm Johnston, Trenton Real Estate (Century 21 Lanthorn Real Estate LTD., Trenton, Ontario) about 8 years ago

Michael:  I am glad there are ONLY four states with this on the ballot this coming November.  Do you know which states they are ?  During 2000 and 2004 the far right put many of these "issues" on the November ballot... using them as a carrot to draw conservatives to the polls... and, of course, while they were there voting on the "issue"... they voted for Bush, as well.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Malcolm:  I am sorry, but I also disagree.  I am using the idea of "Shari'a law" in the narrow sense, and applying it to this one issue, only.  NOT to any other issue that is covered by Islamic Shari'a law.  Perhaps I should have called it "Christian Shari'a Law ?"

I would love to have you expound on your idea of it being a "strawman fallacy."  And, of course, I do not believe that I am being "shrill and unreasonable."  And, of course, I am sure that the far right... is !  LOL.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Karen Anne -- I retrieved an email that was sent from the Courage Campaign yesterday and in part:

 in November, we face four more same-sex marriage ballot fights in Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, and Washington

Posted by Michael Jacobs, Los Angeles Pasadena 818.516.4393 about 8 years ago

Karen Anne, I have seen this story with North Carolina and now Obama siding with Gay Marriage. The sticking point comes down to the word "marriage." I would think most of these North Carolinians would not have problems with the term Civil Union. Even in Texas there is an Amendment to the Constitution against same sex "marriage" like in many states. It is confusing sacredness and rights. The two are separate issues but they are put together. I think any of these bills would pass if they took the word marriage out of there. I don't know why no one sees this as the great compromise between the divided parties. Then we can move on and stop all this fighting.

Posted by Gary Woltal, Assoc. Broker Realtor SFR Dallas Ft. Worth (Keller Williams Realty) about 8 years ago

Gary:  Have you ever seen a limo pull away from a church, confetti flying all over, and on the back of the limo was a sign that said... "Just Civil Union'ed ?"  Neither have I.

The problem with your "sacredness" approach... is that a same-sex couple using the term "marriage" can only lessen the value of what your marriage means to you... if you let it.

I don't know if you are married or not, but would YOU use the term "civil union" to describe your "legal bond" with your wife, or partner ?  I am guessing not.

Actually... I really don't care if North Carolinians have "problems" with the term.  It really does not affect them... and if it does... it is all in their self-defining mind.  One should not be affecting the other... unless they are not thinking clearly... which they obviously are not.  The "conservative right" should not be able to force their beliefs on anyone else. 

Something... a belief... does not necessarily have to be "sacred" to anyone else... in order for it to be, and remain, sacred to you.

By the way... I see what you call a "compromise" simply as one more way of saying "be reasonable, do it my way."  You are not asking for a compromise, but a capitulation.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

I heard the ruling likened to complaining when someone else eats a donut because you're on a diet.

Posted by Wayne and Jean Marie Zuhl, The Last Names You'll Ever Need in Real Estate (Samsel & Associates) about 8 years ago

Michael... I think all four of those states are safe... but, then again, you just never know.  I actually watched, and wrote a post on the final 90 minutes of debate by the Washington State Senate where the issue was passed... by a 28 to 21 vote.  And, it was done in an incredibly civil manner.  There must be something in the water, up there.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Jean Marie... ummm... did you say "donuts ?"  LOL.  That is cute... I like it.  I also like donuts.  Krispy Kremes, of course.  There are enough donuts to go around in North Carolina.  And one person eating their creme-filled donut does NOT make the jelly-filled donut someone else is wolfing down taste any different.  There just is no connection.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Karen Anne - this is such a hot topic.  I have to give you kudos for speaking up on the issue. 

Posted by Juli Vosmik, Scottsdale/Cave Creek, AZ real estate 480-710-0739 (Dominion Fine Properties) about 8 years ago

Karen Anne, a civil union would not be usually in a church you are right. I suppose some churches are popping up that perform gay marriages. A civil union, like a civil marriage would be done by the government like the justice of the peace presiding over the ceremony. The world is changing no doubt about it Karen Anne. The difference between the gay marriage and the opposite sex marriage viewpoints, is the opposite sex marriage folks say God has not changed throughout all this. Gay marriage has never been biblical. What I meant by compromise was a solution that could work for everyone. I don't believe God compromises at all. He has his rights and wrongs and never a sitting on the fence with Him. The term marriage lessens the meaning to God not me. I am not God. I just read what He says. I think if you believe marriage is only civil, there is no problem with gay marriage. If you believe marriage is from God there is a huge problem with gay marriage.

Posted by Gary Woltal, Assoc. Broker Realtor SFR Dallas Ft. Worth (Keller Williams Realty) about 8 years ago

Karen Anne,

                  The same thing with women's right to choose we seem to fight that fight every 4 years.

Posted by Yolanda Cordova-Gilbert about 8 years ago

This is such a hot topic. Frankly, I believe we should all have the same rights. At the end of the day, this is what it boils down to for me.

Call it marriage, call it chocolate, it really doesn't matter. The issue is that 'civil unions' are not afforded the same rights as marriage.

I support equal rights for all and the right to make my own choices (and yes, I am talking about women's rights, too).

Posted by Holly Weatherwax, A Great Real Estate Experience ( Associate Broker, Momentum Realty) about 8 years ago

Karen Anne:  I keep hearing how polls say that the majority of Americans do NOT agree with ... now 30 states ... passing of this amendment/getting onboard.  That the majority disagree with these votes.  My opinion is two-fold:  1.  If you don't agree, then get off your duff and go vote.  Let your voice and opinion be heard.  Obviously this isn't happening or hasn't happened in 30 states, if you can believe the polls.  And .. 2.  Should you decide not to vote ... then don't complain about how the voting goes.  If you didn't take action .. go vote your conviction ... then shame on you. 

Something is definitely out of whack with opinion ... and voting.  A huge election is coming.  Voting is important.  No matter how you feel (and I think you know how I do), voting is important.  Get complacent and lack the conviction to make it to the polls ... and we see the result ...


Posted by Gene Mundt, IL/WI Mortgage Originator - FHA/VA/Conv/Jumbo/Portfolio/Refi, 708.921.6331 - 40+ yrs experience (NMLS #216987, IL Lic. 031.0006220, WI Licensed. APMC NMLS #175656) about 8 years ago

I applaud you for taking this on.  I think it is more a civil rights issue than a religious one and I really applaud Obama for stating how he feels about this issue, it will probably hurt him but in the end you need to at least stand up for what you feel is right.

Posted by Liz Wallace, Broker C21 Sherlock Homes, Rockville Centre, LI, N (Century 21 Sherlock Homes) about 8 years ago

Juli:  I have never been afraid to stand up for what I believe in, and just because I might lose a potential client or two... that is NO reason for me not to speak out, now.

Yes... this is "hot."  But after a while, you get used to it.  It is a play on the old Harry Truman quote.  "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."  And thank you for your kind words.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Oh live and let live

Posted by Hannah Williams, Expertise NE Philadelphia & Bucks 215-953-8818 (Re/Max Eastern inc.) about 8 years ago

Gary in #12:  You say that some churches are "popping up ?"

No, my friend... there are many, many churches in states where Marriage Equality exists, that have been performing same-sex marriage ceremonies for years.  And again, if YOU are ready to accept a civil union as what ties you and your wife together, then perhaps same-sex couples might as well. 

I don't know very many opposite-sex couples who would opt for anything other than a "marriage..." so why can't that be the case for same-sex partners, as well.

You mentioned that "God has not changed."  It's the old "God is on our side" mentality.  Ummmm... have you, or has anyone personally spoken to "God" and asked if only opposite-sex marriages are acceptable ?  No.  Or at least, no one has come back from "Eternity" with that answer.

The fact that gay marriage has never been "biblical..." ok, your point is ?

Does that imply that only those whose religions base their beliefs on their bible... can be married ?  So, everyone else, in all those other, non-biblical countries are only pretending to be married, or perhaps they are living in sin ?

A compromise in the way you are using the word... appears basically impossible.  But really, it is not needed.  Why can't each couple... regardless of the type of couple... or their type of belief system... why can't both opposite sex, and same-sex couples marry... according to their own belief system.

Example:  The Episcopal faith.  Women priests.  Women Bishops.  The Episcopal Church of the United States... has a woman as its "Pope."  Katherine Jefforts Schori is head of ECUSA for a ten-year term. She was elected by her peers.  As I recall, six Episcopal clerics were nominated for the top spot... and she won.

The Episcopal Church has gay and lesbian priests, and there is a gay bishop up in New Hampshire, I believe.  Why am I mentioning this ?  Because it exists.  My point being... does any of this reflect poorly on, negate, or detract from what the Catholic Church under its present Pope is doing ?  No.  They don't like it, but nobody said they had to.

Back to marriage:  Using the term "marriage" lessens the meaning to God ?  And you know this how ?  I believe that in the churches where marriage is "from God..." these is no problem whatsoever with "gay marriage." 

It's just different from what you, and others, believe.  And that is just fine.

Gary... thanks for asking all your questions, and stating all your beliefs.  Discussion is a good thing...

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Yolanda:  You are correct.  Those who again want to impose their will, according to their beliefs, on all other women... are back beating their drums VERY loudly... and have been chipping away at a woman's right to choose for quite some time, now.

And the reason it seems to come to a head every four years... is to use it as one motivation to get all the religious conservatives to the polls every fourth November... to vote for the Republicans.  Some elections it's one of the very few things they have to motivate their "base" to vote.

I don't want to digress, but I will.  This is another example of taking something that is part of their belief system, and turning it into a law, and then requiring everyone... whether a conservative Christian or not... to abide by their belief system.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Holly in #14:  Yes... it's hot topic time on Karen Anne's blog again.  I would think that, as you said, we all should have the same rights.  It makes sense.  Unfortunately, being sensible does not seem to be enough for some.  They have to drag their own personal religious belief system into things.

But... I love your idea.  From now on... marriage of any kind... we shall call "chocolate."  And hey, who doesn't like chocolate ?  Newt Gingrich loves chocolate.  He's ordered four truck-loads of it.

I just cannot understand how someone who reveres marriage for themselves can expect two women, or even two men... to get as equally excited about having that sign on the back of their limo as they pull away from the church... that says "Just Civil United."

And yes, again... we all have the right to make our own choices, and nobody has the right to be able to take the choice THEY chose, and force it on others.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Gene in #15:  I agree that the majority of US citizens do NOT agree with restricting Marriage Equality.  North Carolina was the 30th state to insist on Inequality for its citizens.  Most of the states are southern states... in what many call The Bible Belt.  And yes, nobody has the right to complain if they have not gotten "off their duff" and voted.

But... a person's civil rights should NOT depend on anyone's poll, or depend on a majority of those voting in order to have that specific equality.  Yes, voting is extremely important in the upcoming November's election.  But that is different than requiring a person's Equal Rights to only exist if that right was voted for by, as I said, a majority of those who voted.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

How dare anyone deny me the right to marry the love of my life.  I fell in love with a soul and it just so happens that that soul is in the body of a woman.  God led me to her and I can't wait until the day I stand before God, my family and friends and say I do.  Forever until the day I die, I do.

Posted by Kerrie La Guardia, Let it Rain! (ActiveRain, Community Manager) about 8 years ago

Liz in #16:  Thank you for your words of encouragement. 

There should be NO reason whatsoever that this issue should be a "religious" one.  Period.  Let those who have certain religious beliefs run their own lives by those beliefs.  To them I say... "Don't you dare try to force me into acting in accordance with YOUR religious beliefs.  That... is un-American.  That... is a Theocracy."

I somewhat shudder about President Obama coming out... so to speak... as he did.  I think it may only light a hotter fire under the religious right to herd their flock to the polls this coming November.  Yes, it was good to see him stand up for what is right... but it could cost the election.  What a decision for him to have to make.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Hannah in #18:  How cool of you to take every word of this post, and all the comments, and sift it down to five simple words.  Oh, live and let live.  It can't get much simpler, or much more correct than that.  Thanks for sharing your personal wisdom with us.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Kerrie in #23:  I love your spirit, and even more, I love your choosing to be visible.  Somewhere, some how, there will be someone who will see your visible'ness... and just that act of courage may be enough to pull that person back from their own personal wall of despair.  Bless you.  It may just be enough for them to believe that it will... get better.

And yes... how dare they ?  How dare they deny you the right to marry the love of your life.

I love your description of the relationship between your soul, and the soul of your beloved.  For those who want "religion" in the middle of this Marriage Equality issue... you cannot get much more "spiritual" that that.

I so much more value the "spiritual" over the "religious."  Our bodies are "accidental."  They are not critical to who or what we are.  Our souls are.

You bring tears to my eyes, you sweet person.  Two souls, now united in love, and someday each of you will have the honor of joining together with the other... as you shared... before God, before your family, and before your friends... to say "I do."

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

I'm totally with you on this one, Karen!  My brother is gay and married.  He is fortunate to live in a state that recognizes his right to marry another man.  I've never understood how completely ridiculous this whole "controversy" can and let live people!

Posted by Sharon Tara, New Hampshire Home Stager (Sharon Tara Transformations) about 8 years ago

Sharon in #27:  I am so pleased for your brother and his beloved.  And I love how your phrased that he lives in a state that "recognizes" his right to marry another man.  That state did not "give him" or "grant him" that right. He has it all the time.  The state simply, finally recognized it.

It truly IS ridiculous... all this nonsense and this "controversy."  It is really too bad that those who drop into such controversy over this are so insecure that the act of two people of the same sex choosing to marry... threatens them so.

I agree... but not only "live and let live..." but "love and let love."  Thanks for helping me come up with that right now.  <smile>

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

I will never understand where the thought of ANYONE entering into a stable, lifelong, loving relationship with ANOTHER PERSON OF THEIR SAME GENDER, is a bad thing.  

Posted by Chris Ann Cleland, Associate Broker, Bristow, VA (Long and Foster REALTORSĀ®, Gainesville, VA) about 8 years ago

I was going to ask you if you felt any better with Obama finally coming out in favor of gay marriage but then I saw your response in #24.

Posted by Jill Sackler, LI South Shore Real Estate - Broker Associate (Charles Rutenberg Realty Inc. 516-575-7500) about 8 years ago

Nope, you're right ... someone's right shouldn't have to depend on such things, Karen Anne.  But unfortunately, that is how these things seem to come about ... legally.  Voting ... or the Supreme Court finally making a decision after lots of voting has already taken place in many states ... and after lots of years of protest.  It's what happened with Civil Rights.  This will most likely take the same course.

I agree that a "let live" approach would be best ... but I'm betting it won't happen that way ...

Keep these discussions coming, Karen Anne ... I think they're discussions we need to have.


Posted by Gene Mundt, IL/WI Mortgage Originator - FHA/VA/Conv/Jumbo/Portfolio/Refi, 708.921.6331 - 40+ yrs experience (NMLS #216987, IL Lic. 031.0006220, WI Licensed. APMC NMLS #175656) about 8 years ago

Karen Anne, I appreciate your candor and forthrightness. I have definitely "evolved" in my views on this matter. North Carolina has not done itself a favor with this. It is unfortunate and there will be a day when it will be repealed (I hope).


Posted by Cal Yoder, Homes For Sale in Lancaster PA - 717.413.0744 (Keller Williams Elite) about 8 years ago

Until we realize that "belief" is at the crux of the problem  and not the solution to problems we will continue to have these squabbles.  Life is too short.

Posted by Charles Buell, Seattle Home Inspector (Charles Buell Inspections Inc.) about 8 years ago

Karen Anne - you just gotta love that cartoon...I fear it is a 'sad but true' situation. :-) Thank goodness we put this issue to bed (so to speak) in Canada - love and let live!

Posted by Karen Hawkins, MBA - Langley & Surrey, BC (Royal Pro Real Estate Network) about 8 years ago

Karen Anne, I applaud your at length detailed response to me. I super applaud as you see from the range of commenters, taking on the latest hot topic of the day. It is polarizing depending on one's point of view. I think each side will not convince the other to come to their side and that is where it will end up. Reading some more background on this there are two shifting demographics, the younger generation coming up is more in favor of gay marriage than the older generation dying off. Secondly they say there is an Aunt Martha effect, that more gays and lesbians are coming out amongst relatives and friends and the term or concept of "gay marriage" they can see that. If heterosexuals can get married in society, why not homosexuals? They are like me as a person other than sexual orientation and should be afforded rights equal to everyone else. Again I think rights and marriage are mixed where I see them separate. Some take the argument to the next level. Why can't brother and sister, father and daughter, cousins of opposite sex or same sex marry IF THEY LOVE EACH OTHER? I see marriage as a noun and not used here as a verb by most, and it is "sanctified" by God. I know there are diverse views on marriage in this country and around the world that don't see this. My idea with God is God said this and God is unchangeable. Unchangeable by God is "not evolving" by man. I don't listen to man. I listen to God. To NOT listen to God, to reject what God says, is prideful. It is exactly what happened with Adam and Eve. I will have to pay attention to more of your HOT topics you put out there cause they elicit lots of fascinating remarks (including mine of course LOL).

Posted by Gary Woltal, Assoc. Broker Realtor SFR Dallas Ft. Worth (Keller Williams Realty) about 8 years ago

Karen Anne - First time since I moved here that I was not proud to live in this state.  That's all I got to say.

Posted by Jason Sardi, Your Agent for Life (Auto & Home & Life Insurance throughout North Carolina) about 8 years ago

Hi Karen Anne, Watching my sister live with another woman for years, going through the same things my hubby and I, kids, life... but yet does not have the same rights as we do just makes me sad. As a mother of a gay son, I hope that when he finds his love, that he will be able to share life and love and be afforded the same rights as his parents. We've come a long way, but still have quite a long way to go. I hope I see it in my lifetime.

Posted by Cindy Westfall, ABR,GRI Your Tualatin & Portland Metro Real Estate (Premiere Property Group,LLC Portland Metro & Suburbs Oregon) about 8 years ago

Really very weary of the God argument.  It has been used to justify every form of discrimination that has occurred in this country for it's entire history.  It is always so selective and mis-used.  In the old testament it does make reference to if a man lies with a man as he would with a woman he should be put to death, but it also says if a child disobeys his parents he should be put to death.

The bible advocates for slavery,  The tower of Babel was used to justify banning mixed race mariages. Hell the damn church used to refer to left handed people as "the devils paw" and regularly beat children into writing with their right hand.

Jesus never addressed the issue and when God took time out of his busy day to write in stone the ten most important things to him, nary a word about gay marriage.  Two mentions against adultery though and as we shove our old folks out on the street and take away their health care, I believe there was a mention of honoring thy father and mother.

As to the slippery slope argument of brothers and sisters marrying etc. that is the most ridiculous argument of all.  We are talking about equal protection under the law.  90% of the population expects and is granted the right to marry the one, consenting, adult, non-related, human being that they love. They are not asking to marry their siblings, their children, their pets or any other far fetched thing.  Gays are asking for only that same right.  The right to marry the one,consenting, adult, non-related, human being that they love.  Equal. Equal.  Equal.  That's ALL.

Posted by Leslie G. Rojohn, GRI, ABR ~ MoonDancer Realty (MoonDancer Realty) about 8 years ago

HI KAREN!  OK - I can only say - I got the biggest laugh from the photo.  I believe to just let people do what they want - as long as it doesn't hurt children or others - let it be.

Posted by Gabrielle Kamahele Rhind, Broker/Owner (KGC Properties LLC, Tucson Property Management & Real Estate) about 8 years ago

Gabrielle... I'm not quite sure where your last sentence came from, but heck... heterosexual married folks "hurt" children all the time.  So many of them... should not be married in the first place, either. 

Love is love.  A loving couple is a loving couple.  Take whatever the "rules" are for getting married, and simply view it as not only being with two people of the opposite sex, but between two people of either sex... and that is ALL is being talked about, here.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Karen ANne - I think that in 10 years time -  this will all have been a past nightmare for our gay friends.. and marriage will be legalized everywhere. Until then, my heart goes out to them..

Posted by Gay E. Rosen, As Real as Real Estate Gets! (Julia B. Fee Sotheby's International Realty) about 8 years ago

Hi, Karen Anne...I wanted to stop by and wish you a happy weekend. I agree with Gay in the above comment. Personally I have a common law marriage and don't need the ceremony to make it anymore real for me. I'm the one that opted for the common law marriage. My husband wanted a ceremony, but not badly enough to make it an issue. But other people are different, and I understand the need to have something in writing.

Posted by Debbie Laity, Your Real Estate Resource for Delta County, CO (Cedaredge Land Company) about 8 years ago

Debbie... you bring up a great example that I will expand upon, if I may.  You shared that you have a "common law" marriage.  Cool Beans !  And I am so glad it works well for you.

But just think.  Right now there is some dummie "out there" who may just think that anyone having a "common law' marriage "dilutes" that person's so-called "traditional christian sacramental marriage."  Baloney.  One has nothing to do with the other.

Each time two hearts come together as one... a very special creation happens.  How the honored and loving creation that one couple makes between them can lessen what two other people have chosen... is complete nonsense !

Unfortunately there will be those who will insist that what they personally have chosen is what EVERYBODY else should also be doing.  Again... Baloney !  If what they are doing works for them... wonderful.  Just don't try and turn that into a law, and then insist that everyone must "do it their way."

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Gay, I think you really have the only answer that will ever work... which is the simple passing of time.  As the older, more traditional generation disappears, and the younger, more "open" generation continues to "bloom"... the prejudices of times gone by will gradually disappear, and the incredibly insecure need to control that the older generation seems to be mired in... will fade.

Until that time... Marriage Equality will change incrementally... until one day... it will sneak up on us... and become the norm.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Karen,  It is sometimes scary that we allow our government to get so involved in our personal choices in life.  It should be no one's business but the individuals involved.  Very sad indeed.

Posted by Belinda Spillman, Colorado Living! (Aspen Lane Real Estate Colorful Colorado) about 8 years ago

Hi Karen Anne....That was the BEST picture EVER.....I'm pinning it on pinterest!  Congratuations for taking this on.  Frankly too chicken to! 

Posted by Ruthmarie Hicks (Keller Williams NY Realty - 120 Bloomingdale Road #101, White Plains NY 10605) about 8 years ago

Karen, Not Fair, let the people choose, not the government! My mom just attended a same sex marriage in Conn. that was right befrore it was passed in NY.

Posted by Ellen Caruso (Daniel Gale Sotheby's International Realty) about 8 years ago

I have no issues with any marriage of any person to any other person.  I really don't see what the religious uproar is all about.  Having been raised Catholic, I have watched my Church stand down on no eating of meat on Fridays, letting masses be said in English and countless other "beliefs" that were instilled in me.  I still have scars on my left hand as they tried to change my penmanship from "the Devil's hand."  Religion should be personal and my beliefs should apply to me and no one else.  I am all in favor of "gay" marriage.  On the other hand, Obama's conversion is too little and too late.  It was an obvious political ploy and very transparent. 

Posted by Marnie Matarese, Showing you the best of Sarasota! (DWELL REAL ESTATE) about 8 years ago


Guess they should allow civil unions, and leave it up to the churches whether or not they will allow a church wedding. Since not everyone goes to church, but people should honor laws of the land, I'd focus on changing the laws.

How sad that so few states in the country allow same-sex unions.

Posted by Pacita Dimacali, Alameda/Contra Costa Counties CA (Alain Pinel) about 8 years ago

Good morning Karen -

I wanted to thank you for your comment on my post today and let you know I hope you enjoy your day to the fullest making the most of each second my friend. 


Posted by John McCormack, CRS, Honesty, Integrity, Results, Experienced. HIRE Me! (Albuquerque Homes Realty) about 8 years ago

Karen, this is an explosive topic, I think it's great that you blogged about it, I like the cartoon graphic you included (not necessarily the content, but the shock value, and how it got my attention right away!).

Posted by Tanja Cisliek (Future Home Realty) about 8 years ago

Good Morning Karen:

It's great to get a chance to read your blog.  As usual, you always exceed expectation. 

The problem I have with the "Political Noisemakers," is that they are intellectually impotent.  These are the clowns who are on the frontlines making decisions affecting the lives of so many.  I yearn for a time when Americans will start rejecting them.  They appeal to the low-information voters.  Unfortunately, that is the majority of us. 

A few Observations:

Does this mean that the government is now in the business of dictating Choice?

Will there be a day when they will dictate what religion you can choose? What partner you choose?

This is a slippery slope...


Posted by C. Lloyd McKenzie, Living Albuquerque about 8 years ago

When federal and state governments define marriage as a legal right with benefits granted to the marriage of a man and woman, they continue to overlook the FACT they deny individuals the right to marry the person of their choice and get the same benefits.

I am with Kerrie #23 and proud of the life my partner and I of thirty-five years continue to create without the benefits and protections afforded to opposite sex couples. Thanks Karen for pushing the door open for many still in the closet. 

Posted by Emily Medvec, Realtor | Serving Santa Fe & Northern NM (eXp Realty LLC) about 8 years ago

Lloyd in #52:  First of all... I am glad you read my post, and I value you as a subscriber.

Now... (LOL) I really need to respond to this "slippery slope" nonsense.  I took out my "truth and rights" microscope, and put the subject of "marriage equality" under that microscope... and Guess What ?  Nothing else was connected to it.  And it was not on a "slippery slope."  It was on a flat surface... just "sitting there." 

It just... was !

The government is NOT in the business of dictating choice.  Marriage Equality is NOT about having a "new right" being "given."   It is about a right that has been there all the time... simply and finally being "recognized."

Recognizing a same-sex couple's "already-existing but currently denied" right to marry the person of their choice... does NOT mean anyone is dictating anything.  You make it sound like recognizing two women's right to marry will mean that YOU, or other straight folks... will have to marry a person of your sex.  That... is just plain silly.

Dictate what religion you can choose ?  Where in the world did you get this ?  Oh, let me guess.  It's one of those slippery slope things ?  If the government does anything, it should be affirming everyone's already existing right to equality.  That is what makes DOMA unconstitutional.  The "Defense of Marriage Act" does not affirm the universal right to marriage, it denies it.  It makes it "unequal."

This reminds me of the Orwell's book Animal Farm.  One of the quotes from it said "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."  We, as a country, have still not learned that.  Why not ?

Why are so many so incredibly insecure in themselves that they cannot recognize that others already have the same rights that they do.  Equal = Equal.

America is not a Theocracy.  Everyone is allowed to believe whatever religious beliefs they choose, and to live their OWN lives by them.  What they are not "allowed"... is to turn those religious beliefs into LAWS... and then to FORCE everyone else to conform to those laws... as if they were believers in that religion.

American should not be the land of religious extremism... but in many ways, that is what America is becoming.  So.  Very.  Sad.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Emily in #53:  This marriage stuff should all be so simple.  Unfortunately, those who want/need America to turn into a Theocracy, and want America's laws to mimic their religious beliefs, seem to be having their way more and more.  It has got to stop.

I tried to make my response in comment #54 fairly simple and easy to understand, even though it is so long.  It should all be able to be expressed in three little words.  Equal.  Means.  Equal.

I am envious, and delighted by your being together with your life-partner for thirty-five years.  That is so awesome.  There are so many heterosexual couples who should be envious, as well.  Congratulations.

The closet is a terrible place to be.  I think it has only been perhaps ten or fifteen years ago, maybe even just five years, that so many were so terrified of coming out of their closet, either by their own choice, or by being "outed."

I don't know when it changed.  Maybe part of it happened when those happy but terrified folks IN their closets began to figure out that many of the gay suicides that were happening... part of the reason for them was the painful feeling that they were alone, and the disheartening LACK of visible role models.

Gradually some of the braver folks recognized the need to come out of their closets and be visible.  Gosh, I give those women and men credit.  Probably one of the most notable was Ellen Degeneres.  I am sure you remember the horrors Ellen endured when she shared her soul in public.  There were so many who, if they could have figured out how to do it, and get away with it, would have burned her at the stake, or stoned her.

Bless Ellen for her courage.  Bless anyone who chooses to finally be visible.  And Bless You for sharing yourself in your comment.

How scary it must be, and is, for anyone to finally take that very first step and open that closet door just a tweak... and begin to smell the fresh air, and finally become a full-life participant in the rest of the world.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Yes, Minnesota has it on the ballot for this fall along with a voter suppression law.  We have  had had for quite some time free and open same day registration for voters, and the Republicans in the House along with Citizens United want that freedom to vote taken away from the general electorate.  Oh, that felt good to get that off my chest.  It embarrasses me to be from Minnesota these days because of our narrow-minded legistlature.

Posted by Ron Marshall, Birdhouse Builder Extraordinaire (Marshall Enterprises) about 8 years ago

Karen, I don't even like to clean closets, never mind be in one. For me love is all about choice and the freedom to choose. I made a choice decades ago to follow my heart and have been transparent about my life online and offline when my wrong choice ended in divorce. NYT reported today that 50 percent of marriages end in divorce. Why? Wrong choice. Humans should not be made to choose who they love or told who to hate. It is really that simple.

Posted by Emily Medvec, Realtor | Serving Santa Fe & Northern NM (eXp Realty LLC) about 8 years ago

that ecard is hilarious..... and unfortunately so true..

Marriage is for two people that love each other... period..

why does the state or country or anyone for that matter care if it is same sex or opposite sex people?? 


Posted by Sheila Newton Team Anderson & Greenville SC, Selling the Upstate since 1989 (Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices - C. Dan Joyner) about 8 years ago

Sheila:  You ask why does anyone care if it is the same or opposite sex people ?  The answer to that is so simple.  They most likely have been "spoon fed" the poison of intolerance, and the lie of forming a false conscience. 

Just look at most children before some of them have been taught intolerance.  They don't care.  A friend is a friend, and then later on in their lives... someone you love is simply someone you love.  It is one spirit loving another... and the physical body that "houses" that spirit is just something they received at birth. 

Oh, if only more people felt that way.  And, I am guessing that it is even worse in South Carolina than it is in North Carolina.  Oh how I wish it was not so.

Posted by Karen Anne Stone, Fort Worth Real Estate (New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County) about 8 years ago

Karen Anne, I just came across this blog again. Last week I wrote my own post on the same topic. The point of my post was that the amount of equality you can feel depends on where you are in this country, and actually, no gay or lesbian person has complete marriage equality as long as the Federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) remains in place. I don't think that this is an issue that the average person can completely understand because they don't have to think about the perceived validity of their relationships. Most people are, I think, fair minded, as evidenced by the comments on your post. If they could understand they would see the inequity that constitutional amendments cause. Let's hope the 4 states that have marriage equality on the ballot this month show that people do understand and are willing to move us toward a more just society.

Posted by Rich Quigley over 7 years ago

Tomorrow is the day...I'm biting my nails over here.  Come on WA, Approve 74!!!!

Posted by Kerrie La Guardia, Let it Rain! (ActiveRain, Community Manager) over 7 years ago